Let me see if I can set the situation for you. Relatives of mine were making a trip, and they needed a place to stay overnight. My girlfriend has a large home and was more than willing to accommodate their request.
My girlfriend is Jewish, but is definitely secular. Her spiritual beliefs tend to be more towards Buddhism. My relatives can best be described as evangelical born-again Christians.
My girlfriend attends a spiritual institution, The Center for Spiritual Living. It is a New Age sort of place. Her main reason is that she loves to sing and they have a choir.
The time of the trip was around Christmas. The Center was presenting seasonal music, and the center perhaps for this period had a little more of a “Christian” feel to it. My relatives attended the evening service where my girlfriend was singing.
My girlfriend called me the next day after my relatives had left. She was somewhat agitated as they had left a note thanking her and signed it “In Christ”. Her agitation stemmed from the fact that she is Jewish, does not follow the Christian faith and her guests knew it.
My basic take is that when I am a visitor in someone’s house, it is their space. I try to not make them feel uncomfortable from my presence. I am basically an agnostic, and I feel hypocritical participating in pray circles before a meal, but I feel it is the mannerly thing to do. I expect the same of other’s in my space.
So what do you think? Was this a breach of etiquette?
Absofreakinlutely. A simple thank you is all that’s required. There are people of faith that I don’t mind hearing them tell me they are praying for me, but far more of them are hypocrites and use that in an attempt to make themselves look better than me. NOT! Christians especially do this. I’m not christian. I say I’m a recovered Catholic. I believe in God. That’s it. No dogma or anything else. I don’t like shaping my deities into my own image and likeness. The simpler the better. It is wrong to impose your politics, your religion and any inane belief systems on your host. For that matter, shouldn’t be doing it to anyone! It’s wrong to do on a personal level as well as a national level. If I ask your opinion, then give it. The trick is I rarely ask anyone’s opinion on religion, sex, politics or even the weather. I don’t care to hear.
Two Sides.
I try not to make anyone uncomfortable, but that is me. From the perspective of the guest, who appears to be fundamentalist, they are doing ‘their mission’ to save all the non-believers and that mission is mandated by their personal belief system. My mother in law still signs all her cards ‘Joy in Jesus’, knowing all the time that my husband and I do not follow that path.
I see why Robin was upset as it was in poor taste. I also see why they did that.
The best we can do is to be a great example, be polite and go on. Or worst case, use the quite Southern expression, Bless their little hearts.
Someone asked me the other day ‘Why are you a Buddhist?’ My reply was that I could not recall anyone killing in the name of Buddha.
I’m with the “Seeing both sides” opinion. I, however, feel that the relatives should have respected their host.
A good friend whom I’ve known for nearly 30 years obviously told his mother (who considers herself an evangelist) about our limited, if any, discussions on religion. His mother only knows about me what he shares with her about me (which, I hope, is very little). One of the things that he has learned to respect of me (Thank him!) is my refusal to discuss either religion or politics with him. His mother, it seems, felt it her DUTY to call me to (as she put it!) spread THE WORD and educate me on THE LORD! I, out of respect for both my friend and his mother, informed her that religion was NOT a subject that I was willing to discuss with her. She, of course, insisted on my respecting her by allowing her to do her Godly duty, by pressing the point. I informed her that SHE had a choice to make: either end the phone call at that point or change subjects. I pointed out that with her EXPECTING respect that she should also GIVE respect to me. She, with deciding to change the subject, ended our shortened phone call with “I’ll be praying for you and God bless you!”.
When we lose respect for others, we lose respect of ourselves. Give me the right to feel as passionately about who I am as you feel you have the right to feel as passionately about who you are.
I agree with Melinda. It’s funny how we can respect the ‘other side’ by not forcing our opinions on them, but they feel it is their duty to try to save us from ourselves. If they don’t respect your beliefs they will at least respect the line drawn in the sand. Sometimes that is the only way.
The recent war on Christmas is a good example of much ado about nothing. We are not a nation of one belief system. Also, there is no belief system without flaw. From the Angels and Demons movie, religion is flawed; man is flawed.
During a recent discussion on the Christmas non-issue, a cowork asked me ‘Well, I know what Jesus would say!’. I chimed in with me too…. Happy Hanukkah! The discussion was over.
Ummm…yes. I realize that evangelical christians feel it is their responsibility to evangalize but hello!
I found myself saying Happy Holidays this year instead of Merry Christmas because my circle has expanded so much that I became more conscious that people might just as easily be not Christian.
However since the title of this was about etiquette lets remember that this kind of thing should simply be graciously accepted and moved past. It should only be mentioned if said relatives need a place to stay again and Robin wants to say, “I’m sorry but I was very uncomfortable with the the feelings your thank you note engendered last time and I don’t want to put myself in that position again.”
Good for you.
Again I generally endeavor to operate on the principle of “live and let live”. I don’t always succeed, but that is my goal.
It does seem like a big portion of the world feels a need to try to change the world to their point of view.
I, like them, know my point of view is right!!!
The Golden Rule should “rule” here.
Keely…
You better much cut to the chase. Good answer.
I wouldn’t have left that flavor of a note. I’m of the opinion religion and one’s own views are a private and personal thing, and no one else’s business but theirs. Evangelical Bible Thumpers tend to like to “compete” with other’s religions if different from their own, and certainly advertise their beliefs when they get the opportunity. After receiving the hospitality your relatives did, you’d think they would have more consideration. Sounds like my in-laws!
WE DON’T BELEAVE THE SAME, AND WE MUST LIVE AND LET LIVE. WE DON’T KNOW WHO IS RIGHT. WE ONLY BELEAVE WHAT WE THINK IS RIGHT. WHAT EVER WORKS FOR YOU. THEY MUST UNDERSTAND WE ALL DON’T THINK THE SAME. THEY SHOULD GAVE THANKS AND WENT THERE WAY. AND BE HAPPY TO HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING NEW.
The signature of the note was inappropriate and not good etiquette. I can understand the hostess being upset, and I also understand how the evangelicals just can’t help themselves. Reminds me of the movie “Charlie Wilson’s War” where Charlie (played by Tom Hanks) is in Jerusalem setting up an arms deal with an Israeli minister, and pleads with him “for the love of Christ”. 🙂 Me, so long as the note didn’t go on as a recruitment attempt, I’d just blow it off. Kind of treat it like a child’s thoughtless remark. Sometimes it seems that “child of God” thing is meant to be taken Literally…
…as David Clayton-Thomas once said, “I swear there ain’t no Heaven and pray there ain’t no Hell”.
Perhaps – Perhaps not. It was not good etiquette, however one has to determine whether it was done with intent or with habit. Only those who know them would be able to determine this. Question is – is this their normal salutation and they just were not thinking — or were they thinking and did it anyway? Either way it was poor etiquette — but perhaps they were blameless. Your girlfriend was very sweet to put them up and certainly deserved more thought!!!
I guess I will be the lone dissenter here and say I don’t really see the problem. First off, if Robin is secular/Buddhist her Jewish heritage would seem to be irrelevant. Second, if we are talking about live and let live then why not extend that sentiment to their note? The full text of the note is not relayed only that it was “signed ‘In Christ.'” If you think about signatures and sign-off’s, those are generally a statement of the letter writer’s intent, attitude, or feeling in writing the letter (sincerely, with love, etc). So the LW’s in this case were not making any comment about Robin’s faith or beliefs, or making an attempt to proselytise (my personal pet peeve). They were simply stating the spirit in which they were extending thanks. It seems to me that taking offense at that is rather like taking offense at someone saying amen! in response. If a yogini say’s namaste to you and you are not a yogic practitioner should you be offended or might you look for the intent behind the words? Or even simply ignore it as irrelevent to you? Are you going to be offended if a muslim writes you a letter and signs with salaam? I just don’t see the issue in truth.